"You never have war unless you choose it and peace is always more to be considered than war."

This statement really caught my eye. Especially after learning about England from 1509-1542. During the time period of Henry the 8th and all his wives and kids. It's crazy to me how they went back and forth from Catholic to Protestant. I 've never herd of anything more absurd in my life. I was thinking about what I learn in church today. I want to know what the history of my religion has to do with what I am taught to believe now in church. It doesn't make sense to me to have such a rich history of the church but even today in church no one talks about it. I would think this stuff would be things that people who go to church would want and need to know. It's kinda like this whole period of history is almost swept under the rug. They really don't leave much to be desired when you think about it. The extensive blood that was shed over political power trips that the kings and Queens manifested to gain supreme authority in the name of God. I really don't think God Encourages murder. What I want to know is why the church is so involved? Why are politics and religion always intertwined? Don't they realize that religion and politics don't mix? Even now with the East and the West. The East doesn't like the West because they hate our views on religious freedom along with the entire western culture that goes along with that. And the West says the East is wrong. But really, who's right? And who was right back in England when everyone was getting there head cut of in the name of God? Is the true church the traditional catholic church? Or was the Protestant reformation right on? I'm going with what I know. One thing I do know is that Henry the 8th was wrong for how he did all his wives. Frankly, I'm pissed that England became protestant because he wanted to get divorced. It makes protestanism look really bad. I know that in the bible it says the only way you can divorce your spouse is if they cheat on you. Although that usually doesn't happen. It's sad to say that even confessing Christians get divorced for other reasons then that. What's there excuse? Henry the 8th did it.... Yeah probably.

King Henry/Wyatt/Mary/Elizabeth

I learned alot in the introduction into the 16th century. How difficult it must have been not to have freedom of speech. The printing press and its introduction by William Caxton who was an author and translator which in turn make books less expensive and easier to get. The Renaissance (The rebirth) where it was not only the church which has access to literature but more available to all. How Latin was a language of higher learning which was used to introduce diplomacy and a sign of professionalism. It spoke of Thomas Wyatt who was twice sent to the Tower of London for treason only because of what he felt. I read how black people and Jews were treated unfairly. The things that really stood out for me was how messed up things were. You had King Henry VIII who when did not get his way would execute those in his way who would then put himself above the church. There were alot of conflicts taking place whether it be Martin Luther against the Pope -Bloody Mary against those who opposed her. I had heard about the Spanish Armada but did not know that this battle was really lost due to the weather or as the book states a blessing from god. The quote "God save the Queen" I did not know this came about after John Stubbes spoke his mind and had his hand cut off. "I Have No Peace" was the poem that stood out for me. These poems were deep and seem to have a message within a message one of in most cases was full of pain. I will write its translation.
" Peace I do not find, and have no wish for war; and I fear and hope, and burn and I am of ice; and I fly above the heavens and lie on the ground; and I grasp nothing and embrace all the world.
One has me in prison who neither opens the locks, neither keeps me for his own nor unties the bonds; and love does not kill and does not unchain me, he neither wishes me alive nor frees me from the tangle.
I see without eyes, and I have no tongue and yet I cry out; and I wish to perish and I ask for help; and I hate myself and love another.
I feed on pain, weeping I laugh; equally displeasing to me death and life. In this state am i, Lady, on account of you."
These poems for me seem to use simple words to describe powerful feelings.

can someone help my invitation has expired...Bonnie it says for me to get you to invite again....please help can't fall behind

Ok I am about to piggy back off my previous post for the Wife of Bath Prologue to the Tale......

Ok I am continuing on now to the tale..... Chaucer introduced the idea basically that wife of bath makes her basic thesis that women most desire "sovereignty". Ok for example Chaucer uses an older woman, a "cougar" which is the Wife of Bath who has just married a man twenty years younger than she is, as the story is told, about the old hag who gains sovereignty over her youthful husband and the result being that the couple live a contented and a long, happy life.
This lady started out being very boastful, strong minded, and strong willed. She was set in her beliefs that what she was doing and how she was living her life was the right way to do it and she didn't care what anybody else thought. But as you continued to read on in to the story all of that changed, she almost became submissive to a certain degree and it was very apparent at the end of the story.
The ending to this tale was very interesting, it was kinda of crazy how she portrayed how she always had the upper hand in this so called war against men.( this is just my opinion) and seemed like she had fell rather hard for the her last husband, but when she decided to the right thing by him everything backfired on her. Karma, is what happened to her.
For all those years that she was being unreasonable and contrary with her other husbands, all of those things came back on her with this one. I didn't believe that she thought he would hit her and make her go deaf, and right there when she started being dramatic after that, showed how really weak and venerable she really was, because she knew she was ugly and old, and the simple thought of someone actually loving her, younger than her, if what she was thriving for but I really don't think that she believe that he was going to hit her and make her go deaf.
This story was not OK with me, but I mean it was funny how everything changed after she was "hit"!

The Wife of Bath Prologue

Wow, where do I begin with this one. There is so many double standards that range from reading the prologue and tale. I think the general idea that Chaucer was trying to convey to his readers that in his time, the anti feminism of the church was a strong controlling factor ( I got this information from google). Women were frequently characterized as described by Chaucer, as almost monsters; they were sexually insatiable, lecherous, and shrewish, and they were patronized by the church authorities. Women were not allowed to participate in church in any way.
I mean in some cases that is how it is today, I not really aware of the church situation simply because I don't find that type of information relevant to what I came to church for. I am pretty sure that is still the case in many degrees in many churches.
And Likewise, in Chaucer's time, a second marriage was considered suspect, so the Wife of Bath carefully reviews the words of God as revealed in scripture. And her knowledge of scripture (although confused at times) reveals that she is not simply an empty-minded woman.

So basically in the prologue the Wife of Bath explains why she had been married so many times and she describes her husbands. But to me it almost like she is trying to justify why she is doing this, as almost to say the woman's anthem "Men can do it why cant we?" I believe that the Wife of Bath is social and emotionally detached female that is looking for fulliment in these men and she is not finding it.
I mean she made a statement like "if everyone remained a virgin, she offers, who would be left to give birth to more virgins? Even more basic, she maintains that the sex organs are to be used for pleasure as well as for procreation". I mean she makes logical sense in that aspect of it, but she is justifying being a "hoe".
That is where the double standard comes in for men and woman and it relates to this day and age as well. The men can go out and sleep around and it is ok but the woman cant that would make her "loose", "hoe", and a lot more other things.
I mean she admits that she is a boisterous woman who enjoys sex and is not ashamed of it — a violation of the medieval view that saw sex as justified only for procreation. She also denies the popular belief that women should be submissive, especially in matters of sex.
That's crazy as hell! (with the help of google, I have to give to credit!)
But that aspect that you have to attribute to this prologue is that the Wife of Bath's prologue is not her argument with the mores of her time or with the strictures of the church, but the very wonderful portrait of a human being. She is a woman of great vitality, a woman who is wonderfully alive and responsive. And after five husbands and hardships — she has lost her beauty and her youth — she has survived. She has the power to enjoy life which was frowned upon by the church ,and she has the will to enjoy what she cannot change and that bothered the church.
I mean this story is very bias and you cant be when you read it and I had to learn that quick after we had the discussion in class about this story

I thought these pics were cool I hope that everyone finds them fasianting .

The first one is the Wife of Bath

The second one is Jankin hitting the Wife of Bath on the ear. It's the blow that made her go deaf.

Comments on the Wife of Bath

What intrigued me about the "Wife of Bath's Tale" is that this woman seems to justify her marriages and divorces with a story about an Aurthurian knight who does wrong. I feel that she tells this tale to help aliviate the burdon of her mistakes within her love life. No where in the Canterbury Tales does the narrator say that these stories, told by the various travelers, have to be true. Maybe she was making up this far fetched story to divert attention from her own life. I think it is important to understand that men, especially courtly men and knights, could have another true love outside of marriage. In fact, this practice was not uncommon. However, why is it unjustifed if a woman, such as the wife of bath, decides to flaunt her sexuality? This only shows the anti-femenistic sentiment that was evident, and ramped during the Chaucerian era. This woman is the only female character in the book that is not being pursued in "courtly love". In the other stories it is the men who are professing their love for various women, regardless of their marital status. She is taking on the male dominating role by seeking out and taking Jakyn for her own. It is interesting to me that Chaucer decided to include this strong female heroine in his Canterbury Tales. It is not surprising, however, that in his retraction, he takes back this notion. Interesting.

The Concept of 'Courtly Love' in Chaucer

There was an interesting practice that was a ramped theme during Chaucer's literary career. The middle ages was a time when a chivalrous code, known as "courtly love", dominated not only courts and upper class citizens of the Chaucer era, but also the literature. Courtly Love was the concept that European members of the courts, especially knights and noble women, engaged in a chilvalrous love code regardless of their marital status. Courtly love must be proven through valiant quests, battles, or jousts. Members of the upper class believed that "true love can only exist outside of marriage." Marriage at this time was commonly set up not out of true love, but out of financial gain. Therefore, men and women who were married were not truely in love. This concept makes room for the acceptance of the concept of "courtly love".

Courtly Love was the literal theme of the times. Chaucer gives many specific examples of courtly love in The Canterbury Tales. However, chaucer was not the only medieval writer who included this strange love triangle. Writers like Dante, in The Divine Comedy, and Petrarch, in his Sonnet's to Laura, were enthralled by the idea of courtly love. Aurthurian Legend and stories about the knights of the round table are emmersed with ideals of Courtly Love. This can be seen in works such as the story of Lancelot and Gweneviere, and Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.

Andreas Capellanus explains and believes that the idea of love is painful to a man. Love, in fact, degardes the soul and is an incurable disease. He says that when a man is truely in love, he cannot eat, sleep, or speak when in the presense of his true love. He will turn pale in the presense of his love and he will change shape and form. He will wither away because of the effects of love. Evidence of this can be seen in Chaucer's "The Knights Tale". In this story the Knight Arcite sinks into having a broken heart. As a result, his physical appearance changes. He turns pale in the presence of his lover, and he is no longer recognizable. Also, Palamon and Arcite perform a duel to settle the rights to Emilie. When two knights valiently fight over a woman, this is another condition for courtly love. Their actions are also abiding to Capellanus' rules of love by confirming to fact that, "Nothing prevents a woman from being loved by two men, or a manfrom being loved by two women."

Other example could include the Squire, and his concept of courtly love. He has a courteous style and is a ladies man. He goes by the strict rules of courtly love. In "The Miller's Tale" the idea that Nicholas and Absolon are lured by Alison toward gestures of courtly love, indicates that Chaucer was thinking of courtly love when writing this tale. This is also an example of two men loving one woman. "The wife of Bath" could also be included. In this story Chaucer once again presents us with a knight. This time he is in trouble for rape. He makes a deal with a haggard, old, woman who tells him what to say to Gwenevire, in exchange for marriage. Eventually the knight finds love through a set up marriage. What is intriguing about the "Wife of Bath's Tale" is that in the prologue the wife of bath herself engages in courtly love. That is she finds her fifth husbeen Jackyn by picking him out and professing her love for him. She has had other marriages in the past. However according to the 31 rules of love, "A new love expells an old one". Being married or having other marriages and engaging in coutly love was not uncommon for courtly men, especially noble knights. However, when a woman engages in this role she is shunned upon by her peers, and is considered adulterous and unholy. This is not only an exotic example of courtly love but it also shows the ammount of anti-feminism that was evident during Chaucer's days.

It's all about sovereignty... that rhymes with virginity.

I haven't wanted to blog thus far because I really don't like the wife of bath and I've been trying to capture her in my minds eye. I think I've figured her out. nah never that... She's a really developed character. one that we could probably study for an entire semester studying. An interesting point was brought up in class today about how at the end of the tale, the ugly, hag turned in to a beauty. We discussed two thought. The first, the old hag never turned in to a beautiful lady she always was on the inside. The knight finally saw that when he saw her inner beauty. Yeah that's sweet but I think it was his punishment. To be married to an old, ugly, hag for the rest of his life and have everyone make fun of him behind his back for the rest of his life for being married to this super, ugly, old, hag. That would be a bid bust on his ego. The second thought is: the old hag really did turn into a beauty, only after he abdicated power for her to choose which she would rather be. (line 1225-1234) So she did turn into a beauty because she would have rather looked pretty and she would rather also be loyal. Just because that is the way she already was. But she was wise enough to play the fool. The key word here is "she", she made the decision. It wasn't forced on her. Maybe the knight learned his lesson about forcing women to do things they didn't want to do ie. rape.
I think that the Wife of Bath used the character of the Knight to say that men have and always will be ruled by women. The story starts off with the rape of a woman that represents woman oppression being ruled by a man. But in the knight's head he couldn't help raping her. He was bewitched by her maidenhood. In the end of the story the woman rules over the man with her words she persuades thing to see it her way. He would rather be happy and submissive to her. The old hag forces the Knight to see that he is the old hag. he comes to the pivotal realization that he is the hag and she is ugly because he is ugly. And only by giving sovereign rule to the woman could he be purified and be beautiful in The Wife of Bath's eyes. and only after the knight gives all authority in the relationship to the hag does she become beautiful. The wife of Bath is using the story to justify why she acts the way she does towards all her husbands.

Wife of Bath

The tale of the Wife of Bath was really interesting and amusing to me. She starts out as this outspoken women who is going to teach everyone through her story of experience. As she gets further into the story I feel like she gets wrapped up in it to and lets her emotions about her past experiences play into the story. She kind of starts to jump around and the story loses its focus. At first I didn’t know what to think because she took pride in her ability to manipulate and control men. Then when she continues her story and talks about Jankyn, you can tell that the reason she loved him (the only of the 5 husbands she actually loves) is because he was the only one she couldn’t control. I think it is a perfect portrayal of how fickle women can be. She acts like she is hot stuff and knows everything about love, but she doesn’t. She knows how to control men but it was only when she let someone else be in control that she actually learned how to love.

I think that her story is completely embellished, and possibly untrue. She tries to vindicate herself and her actions by linking her story to pieces of scripture and other texts, but she can’t. The comparisons she tries to make don’t even make sense and you can just tell she is trying to play off as smarter than she really is. I think she just wants to sound as knowledgeable as those from higher classes to make herself feel better. That was amusing to me because I was reading some research on the Canterbury Tales and someone had noted that even those of higher/highest social classes could not even correlate their story to scripture or other texts correctly.

Okay, time to log off to go to class! More fun-n-games later!

The wife of bath

Look at this picture of the wife of bath!

Anyway, I loved the Wife of Bath tale and prologue. I have read it before but we never really talked about it in depth like we did on Monday. I thought the story was hilarious. She makes some very good points about the way society is. I especially like how blunt she is about things. She is not afraid to say what is on her mind and I really admire that characteristic. At the time this story was written, women didn't have very much independence and the Wife of Bath defied that.

The fact that she has had five husbands makes her a very experienced woman in love. I think anybody who has been married that many time develops a certain level of wisdom and knows exactly what men like and do not like. This gives her and advantage over other woman because although she may not be the most attractive, she has something that many other women do not have...experience.
She has a very dirty yet hilarious sense of humor. The Wife of Bath says things that most women in her time probably did not even think of let alone have courage to say it aloud. Overall, the wife of Bath's Tale was very good. I love how the knight decides at the end to let her choose what she thinks is best for him (I guess he knew that women know best haha just kidding) and then he got the best of both worlds. This story is definitely one of my favorites thus far and is probably going to be even after the semester is over.

Miller 's prologue was funny and I take it back as far as what I said about Beowulf and Sir Gawain. I though the story was leading to the carpenter killing Nick. The twist at the end was classic, how my man though he kissed someone with a beard had me rolling. The discussion in class today was interesting because it seem like a lot more people were talking, which again kind of proves my point that no matter the educational background of an individual we all enjoy humor. The way I now look at Chaucer is that he gives a point of view from both sides, the rich and of the common man. He gave his reader a choice when he described Miller and his behavior, yet left me with curiosity to want to keep reading, kind of touch that other side we usually do not show in public. At thew end he left an opening to have a part 2 or continuing with what happens to the Wife, Nicholas and Absolon. There a few lessons one could take from this story, but mine is always to be careful of who you kiss on the cheek. Family I will be on a business trip 15-18 Feb, please remind Dr Kilgore

Millers Tale

I really enjoyed the millers tale. I thought it was hilarious. The plot is so funny and the characters are so sneaky that it is almost like modern day films. My favorite character was Nicholas. He was the mastermind behind the whole scheme on John and I thought he was very clever. The whole idea behind the commiting adultery thing is something very realistic. Although the story is a comedy, it is kind of sad that adultery is thought of an ok thing to do. When Alisoun stuck her butt out to be kissed instead of her lips I thought it was hilarious. That is something I would do! I really enjoyed this story, much more than Beowulf! I think that if more ancient stories were written like this one, I would probably read a whole lot more!! Although cheating is very wrong, Chaucer did make it seem like it was acceptable because John was so jealous that he kind of "deserved" to be cheated on. I disagree, just because someone is jealous doesn't mean you should cheat on them! Not only do two wrongs not make a right, but won't cheating only make him more jealous if he were to find out?

Miller's Tale

I read the Miller's Tale last night and I thought it was hilarious. It was so crude but so very entertaining. My favorite character is Absolon. He is so emotionally unstable. I was not quite sure how to handle his character. When I was reading the tale I was thinking this guy is an idiot. He was standing outside of a woman's bedroom window trying to woo her while she was inside with another man. It makes me think of nice guys finish last. Too bad for them that Absolon was crazy. I think love drove him crazy. Love drove Nicholas and Alisoun crazy too. I mean who comes up with an elaborate scheme to sleep with their lover. I guess people who cheat do. This story is so morally wrong. It kinda shows the character of the Miller and his view on love. Cheating, deceiving, lustful, and comical all rolled into one. I love the idea of Canterbury Tales. It's like watching people on T.V watch T.V only 1400's hundreds style and way better written. Like always, there has to be a deeper meaning to this funny story then just a cheating wife and an estranged lover. Again there is an underlining theme of Christianity. Unlike Beowulf and Sir Gawain, who are more missionary minded, putting God out there to the godless of society. Chaucer focused on the corruption of the church, in the church, by the church. I mean look at it, Absolon was a church clerk looking to score with a married woman that went to church who claimed to be a christian but was cheating on her husband. The fact that the author used a woman to play the bad guy role is so risky. Now a days it is more acceptable to see that happen but I always think of the guy being the cheater not the woman. Anyway, what does that tell you about the value of God in their eyes. I think it reflect anger on the part of the author towards the church. I wonder what was going on in the early church around the time that Canterbury Tales was written. On the other had you have Nicholas the astrologer, who goes and tell Alisoun naive husband that Noah's second flood is coming. That does not make an sense in it's self because any christian would know of God promise of the rainbow and that God will never flood the earth again. I guess that's where the pun comes in. The miller's tale is funny on more then one level now that I think about it. Chaunce is speaking to many audiences at once. That go into the whole class and rank in society thing. Depending on your social status when reading this story it can mean different things for different people. Is Chaucer delibratly taking hard hit at the church? yes, I believe he is. I also believe that just because this story appears to be funny it's not. It is very serious reality stuff that he's talking about in a very unique way. I have more respect for the author he is brilliant.

Class in Canterbury Tales

In regards to the Prologue of the Canterbury Tales, I would like to comment on the structure that Geoffrey Chaucer uses when describing these characters. The way he composes the prologue, we can get a great perspective on what different occupations were like at the time of Chaucer. We can also see where certain occupations rank in society. It seems as if Chaucer organizes his characters starting from the high class to the low class. He starts out with the knight. Other than the king or the queen, the knight ranks in the highest order on the social ladder. The squire, who is a knight in training, ranks right below the knight. Chaucer then describes the clergy men. The clergy men are not chivalrous, but they are connected with God. They are also very wealthy because churchmen recieved alot of money from the public. Next it seems that Chaucer describes ascending business men. Now in this day and age these men along with physicians, would rank among the social elite. I would like to comment on the physician. The physician ranks, according to Chaucer's listing and introduction of characters, among the border line lower class. They are almost peasentry in class. Today, it is widely known that doctors make the most money with regards to occupations. They require the most schooling, and therefore in the United States, make the most money. In other countries, especially in third world countries, or countrys with social medicine, doctors make less money than teachers for example. Chaucer also ranks these people, I believe on intensions of their quest. The men and women who are sincere in their pilgrimiage, rank among the elite according to Chaucer. However, the people who are simply on this journey to prey on people and make a quick buck, are on the bottom of Chaucer's social ladder. I think it is interesting to see how Chaucer lists these people. They are not simply listed in random order in Chaucer's prologue.

Are you suggesting that coconuts are migratory?

First of all, I have to say that I absolutely loved our action news report, everyone did a great job. I think it is so funny how detailed the author(s) get with the idealistic world in which the Knights of the Round Table live….Camelot…..CaMeLoT….CAMELOT! I really think that it is foreshadowing the downfall of these ideal knights. I guess I am just really skeptical of them being completely genuine and borderline perfect. The author also is constantly reiterating the idea of courtesy. For me it could be a good or a bad thing. Everyone can be courteous and polite. In the story, however, it seems to almost be at a point of just being fake.

The whole concept of the color green for me is difficult. I wasn’t sure what the exact meaning was. I mean, the Green Knight and his horse are green from head to toe, and in such an interesting hue. Green is present all through the story, including the girdle that seems to represent honesty, or dishonesty in Gawain’s case. I was reading more about the significance of the color in what I could find online in regard to the Green Knight and found some cool information. The author talked about how the Green Knight has an ambiguous meaning in the story. He comes into Camelot holding an axe in one hand—representing conflict, and a holly branch in the other—representing peace. After I read that I felt like he was there to represent either/both depending on how you approach him and deal with him. Overall I feel like Gawain experienced both aspects because he dealt with the conflict all throughout the story until he “learned his lesson”, then there was peace.

After the whole moral of the story was revealed, Gawain decided to wear the green girdle to always remind him of the sinfulness of his ways so that he would be a good man from that point forward. I immediately thought of the Scarlet Letter, even though she was forced to wear hers, rather than by choice. I just thought of the idea of a permanent reminder right in front of you for the rest of your life and the two seemed to connect. To show support for the lesson he learned, everyone at the round table promised to wear green as well. I know it sounds all warm and fuzzy like everyone learned their lesson and they are going to be EVEN BETTER people than before, but I really don’t believe it. The line that did it for me was 2512, “For where a fault is made fast, it is fixed evermore”. I brought this one up in class and felt like a really good discussion came of it. The whole line can be interpreted in completely different ways. First you could think, it was a quick and stupid mistake that can easily be corrected. On the other hand, you may think that it is a “fastened” mistake that is affixed to you forever. In the speech about wearing the girdle, I felt like he meant he made a bad mistake, but it will forever be fixed by always wearing the girdle. As if that was all it took to make it all better. I guess I am just skeptical, after all, it’s only a model.

Beowulf (gasp) I am catching up, Promise!

Here I go again only like, two weeks behind. There were some really awesome themes that we discussed and I noticed as I read Beowulf. One of them, as have been discussed already in the blog, is the weaponry and its effectiveness. Cambridge already described how the 3 items correlated to a story in the Bible, and I thought it was really cool how a sword, which should be able to “put a hurtin’” on someone…didn’t.

Another theme that we discussed that was pretty amusing to me was the role of women, or lack thereof. It seemed like the only time you really knew a woman’s name was when she was married to an important male character. Otherwise she is just the ole ball and chain without a name.

The idea of “death-price” was a really interesting point for me. I really felt like it related to the idea of “eye for an eye”. Basically I think it comes down to vengeance. “You killed my brother so I am going to kill yours” sort of thing. Seeing death-price in the poem made me think of the strong kinship that has been prevalent in all of the readings thus far. They are all about the brotherly love…

One thing that I couldn’t believe was how Hildeburh’s husband was killed by her family. I can’t even begin to fathom what that would be like. I mean, in-laws are hard to deal with in the first place, let alone when they are murderers…

Overall there was a lot of ambiguity in the story, especially in regard to gold and treasures. They are such a crucial part of the story, but in the end it seems like they really don’t matter. Page 100 lines 3166-3168: “They let the ground keep that ancestral treasure, gold under gravel, gone to earth, as useless to men now as it ever was”. It is just funny because I feel like the idea of gold being so important is such a big deal, but it really isn’t. When you die none of that stuff really matters. In reading the ending, I felt like that tied in to the last line that describes Beowulf as “keenest to win fame”. I think it means that when your life is over, your legacy is all you have left. If that’s the case, then the only thing that matters is doing everything you can to make your life worthwhile and to make a difference. You can be as rich as A-Rod, but what does he stand for? I would rather be like Warren Buffet and make my life about using my wealth and intelligence to help others.

It took me a little bit before I got into this story, but I really enjoyed it overall….I promise….don’t judge me on my late posting J

Reading Chaucer

I still enjoyed Beowulf and Sir Gawain a whole lot better than The General Prologue. Maybe because of the action and the macho thing that both poems had. I am serious when I said that our group discussions open up my head to different view points. At the beginning I kind of took it as a bunch of people taking a trip together. I see now how the poem rhymes and how detail the author is about the characters, still would not be one of my favorites, but starting to understand that this is all leading to something and that the author is describing them how he See's them and from memory.....help Beowulf

Sir Gawin and the Green Knight Part 4

I am almost done with this story........... Ok in the final part of this story it mimics the beginning of part 2 with the description of the concept of passing time and the description of the atmosphere.
Gawain begins by putting on his armor and leaving the castle and his attitudes shows that he is not in the mood for these games anymore. The most important part of this passage is when Gawain sets out to find the Green Chapel. There is a correlation between the dates of when the Green Knight's beheading occurred and when Gawain set out to find the chapel. The green knight is able to heal from his decapitation and then he punishes Gawain for not decapting him.
This part of the story does not make any sense to me.
Basically all Gawain did was scratch him and the Green Knight is mad.
I feel like the Green Knight is trying to represent God in this story, by not killing Gawain even though he was sharping an axe, and he also frees Gawain from the sin of lying about the girdle. If you were raised in the church you know that know mortal has those types of powers to free anybody from anything. So the author leads me to believe that the Green Knight was God, because he was not harmed during the "scratching" incident and then he also forgave Gawain that indicates to me that the Green Knight was a larger than life character, example God.

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight part 3

Here we go one more time, moving on to part 3. In part 3 the author introduces the alternating hunting scenes that we discussed in class on Wednesday. The hunting scene and the bedroom scenes are parallel to one another, suggesting to what is already obvious, a woman's attempts to entrap an man. Let's explore that subject , a woman's attempt to entrap a man, doesn't that have a lot of relevance to today's society? The whole idea and concept of this attempt is based of the notation of being in control all the time, a woman's need to have control.
Now, with me being a female, I think the idea of a "trapping" a man is just stupid. But contrary to my own personal opinion a lot of women need that control to feel dominant and better about themselves, which later borders on the edge of having self-esteem issues. The queen in this story felt like she need to do just that to feel wanted and attractive, she was also lonely because her king was gone hunting and she like any other lonely woman needed the attention and affection of man and she went to find it in Gawain.
Ok,now back to the story, for the next three days the situation was intense for both Gawain and the hunters. I also understood from reading this story that there were a lot of parallels between the hunting scenes and the bedroom scene. The host considers his glory and the dangerous hunt in the same way that the Green Knight and Gawain considers their situation a game.
The boar hunt illustrates the one on one combat between the prey and the host, and it also shows so much that it wasn't a game.
I mean this part of the story just gets weird as hell.
The three bedroom scene also are weird as hell also, because they are keeping with the theme of this story as playing a game. The game though is that the lady is testing Gawain morals and sexuality as a person and more or less as man. She is waiting to see if he falls for her games and plays along with her. In some instances he becomes weak and kinda flirts back with her, but at the end she is basically playing the game with herself. As a result she gives a Gawain a green girdle and informs him to wear it, but basically she is trying to mark her territory in a way.
He is stupid and he takes the girdle and it breaks the agreement with the host that he had, I mean this story at this point is on the verge of being a Jerry Springer show, I mean it is just filled with lies and stuff, but oh well it is just a story..........

The significance of the Animals- Continued

Second: The Boar

The boar could represent the toughness of the green knight. The green knight is a persistant character. It takes alot to bring him down. Sir gawain cuts his head off and he simply picks it up off the ground and continues on. This is a similar characteristic a boar holds when attempting to hunt it. They are not easy to kill. They commonly keep going, or even charging when engaged. This is a similar characteristic the green knight holds. He is a strong character who is stronger than he may appear.

Third: The Fox

The fox could easily be attributed to the cunning ways of Morgan La Faye. She is the mastermind behind this plot to embarrass Aurtur and the fellow knights of the round table. She, like a fox, is extremely elusive. No knight suspected her to be behind the challenge the green knight put fourth. It is said that the fox is one of the smartest animals in the wild. They are in fact smarter than most domesticated dogs. We all know how smart our own dogs can be. They have personality that we can relate to. They can encounter situations and outsmart their predators. This is very similar to the tactic that Morgan La Faye uses to trick and make a mockery of Sir Gawain, and ultimately Aurtur.

The significance of the Animals

Quickly, I would like to relate the hunted animals in the story "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight" to the major characters in the book.

First: The Deer

The deer could represent Sir Gawain. He is rather naive, possibly shy, and seems to be running from something. Eventhough he is searching for the green knight, he volunteers to find himself. He does this to feel important between his fellow knights in camelot. He wants to prove himself. He is in essence running away from cameot to accomlish this task. Deer are also not stupid animals, but they do not possess the cunning mental skills that the boar and fox possibly possess. They are easy prey compared to a boar or a fox. They are more proned to being tricked, and eventually are easy to take advantage of.

Second: The Boar

Green With Envy Continued, Continued

I didn't mean "my Aurthurian Literature". I meant "more Aurthurian Literature". Anyway... While I agree with Gunny4life that "being humble", and the fact that "no one is perfect", relates well to Sir Gawains situation. I still feel that jealousy is the key component towards the motive of Morgan La Faye, or the Green Knight. The idea that the color of the knight and the gurdle are green, promotes in my eyes, that this color was chosen to represent Morgan La Faye's jealouy towards her half brother. He is a king. She is a wicked, disgusting, wench. Of cousre there is some disdain toward her successful brother. But the idea of "green with envy" goes hand in hand with Morgan La Faye and her jealous nature.

Green With Envy Continued

In a prior post I alluded to my opinion that the green knight was jealous of King Authur and his knights at the round table. I take this back. It was not the green knight, or the king who took on the appearance of the green knight, but it was in fact Morgan La Faye who held anomosity, and jealousy for her half brother Authur, and the fellow knights of Camelot. She was "green" with envy. Why? I do not know. However, I am sure possible past altercations between her and Aurthur would be revealed if we explored my Aurthurian Literature. I still believe it is "jealousy" that drives Morgan La Faye to attempt to embarrass Authur and ultimately Sir Gawain.

Group discussion are great

Just when you think you understand what is going on, our group discussion has you looking at Sir Gawain differently, which I do appreciate. I enjoyed the twist and turns and the manipulation involved by these puppet masters. Amazing how at the end I took it as people are not perfect and how it could have been just a lesson on being young and naive. It did not take a detective to figure out something was up, the green castle, the barons wife, being lost. I enjoy how these stories always seem to have a lesson. Bonnie you did a great job putting things in place....until our next movie Sir Fat-wain out.

PROJECT!!

Ok so I can be at the school by 1:30 tomorrow...can anyone else meet me there so we can get some practice before we present?? If you can e-mail me at illek12@Msn.com

How much is your honor worth?

I'm renaming Sir Gawain and the Green Knight to Talk is Cheap. The whole poem is a big game. The Green Knight ,who is really the Lord of the castle, was messing with Authors court the whole time. I knew there was some kind of twist to this poem. It started with honor and the five point star . I think that it was important in this poems context to show honor so that in turn we would see how much the Knights of the Round Table and Sir Gawain were far from being what they claimed to be. It kinda makes me wonder what else was going on in Camelot to make people think the worst of the knights. They weren't really as valiant as they said. The moral of the story is: no one is really as good as they claim to be. Especially when it comes to sinning because we all sin and we all fall short of the glory of God. My question is were the knight of the round table looked at as a gods? I kinda pick up on that through out the poem. Sir Gawain was a hero in the land and he was supposed to act a certain way and do certain things but the Green Knight came to show everyone that no one can be all that they claim to be and still be human. Now that I think about it, The Green Knight really harassed Sir Gawain. He pretended to adore him and he acted so innocent like he really trusted the guy but he was playing him the whole time.He left the final choice up to Sir Gawain though. If he really was what he claimed to be it was all good. It's kinda like the death price in Beowulf. Only Sir Gawain by his actions, pretty much said, that his life was worth more then his honor. When the knights code was saying that honor is more important then life. In the beginning of the poem the Green Knight asks for the most courteous man in all the land to take on his challenge, no wonder he did that. When Sir Gawain stood up and took the challenge he was saying that faith, good works, villainy, virtues, compassion, brotherly love, a pure mind, and the like were more important then his life. He was lying but i don't think he realized the importance of his claim. When it came down to it, his life was more important then his code of arms and that my friends is what the Green Knight was trying to show them all along. In the end of his story he still had his life but what good was it. In the end, he lost the most valuable thing to him; which was, his good name .In that time you were nothing without your name. You got in to the best castles and got to enjoy the best company, music, women, gold, food, ect. what' s better then that? There's more, Back to the lord and his castle. The Green knight was still messing with Sir Gawain. he treated Sir Gawain as his name saw fit. Sir Gawain had never met the lord of the castle before. The Lord really didn't know anything about the "real" Sir Gawain except by his name and the reputation the proceeded it. He treated him well on the basis of his name. All the stuff that Sir Gawain when through was a testing the legitimacy of Sir Gawain's name. The Green knight tricked Sir Gawain into showing that he wasn't all that his name claimed him to be. Sir Gawain lost all high esteem. To bad for him. I don't blame him though. I think we can learn more then one valuable lesson from Sir Gawain and The Green Knight, Talk is Cheap and men and woman cheat. Life's a big test and it's really based on the values of your culture. Sir Gawain lied to save his behind or so he thought. What makes it worse is that he still went to face the Green Knight and he still acted valiant on pg. 205 the guy who lead Sir Gawain to the Green Knight's chapel told him he should run and go hide but he didn't. Sir Gawain thought that it was okay to lie to save his life because he was deceived by the woman who was really the Green Knight wife. The man who lead him also said that no other man had made it out alive. That tells me where their honor really was (absolutely no where). I guess Sir Gawain did good compared to the other men. He didn't die and he probably learned a life lesson or two. I think that Sir Gawain was young, like Arthur and he still had so much more to learn about life. I like the last lines of the poem. Where it talked about Christ. It is so true. I think Sir Gawain may have learned that men are not righteous and can never be righteous on their own. God forgave Sir Gawain for his shortcoming. In the End I think the whole ordeal brought Sir Gawain closer to God.

Green With Envy

I would like to explore the notion of Envy in "Sir Gawain and the Green Knight". The origins of "green with envy" are tied in with "old Irish" folklore. However, I find it rather coincidental that the reen knight is indeed envious. When he busts through the doors of Authu's court and round table, he asks who is in charge of the great Camelot. To me, I sense a very sincere jealousy in the words of the Green Knight. He is envious of the great knights of the round table and ultimately of King Aurthur. He challenges these men because he may have some resentment towrds their greatness. Maybe because of the fact that he is green, he feels unable to join the ranks of the knights of camelot. He may in fact feel that he is worthy, and good enough to be one of these knights, but he cannot ever become one because of his radiant green color. When I did some research on the origins of "green with envy", I was hoping to find these orgins rooted and seeded within Authurian literature. Unfortunately, this was not the case. However, I can see why the author chose the color green when describing the jealous knight. Green signifies sickness. He could be sick with envy. He wants something that he knows he cannot obtain. He wants to be a knight in Camelot, and his greed and sickness with envious thought, prevents him from being a good knight. Only good knights can sit aside King Aurthur at the round table.

Sir Gawain and the green knight was a little rough a the beginning. Then came in the Green Knight and just punked everybody at King Arthur's table. I enjoyed how he came in and cut into the knights without using abusive language, he was cool in how he approached them and engaged verbally. As we said in class, which our class discussion I enjoy because I hear different views from my class mates, but when it seem that all the knight were scared we spoke about being courteous. I still think that some used their courtesy in letting the king speak as an excuse not to have to engage the Green Knight. Again I am reminded of Beowulf in how Gawain stood up for his king, even though maybe some had to do with saving face. Still he accepted the Green Knights challenge in cutting the G.Knights head off, which trip me out, but as I read on I see how all of this was just part of a much bigger plot or set up. Today I participated in our action news and I must say I had a great time with class mates doing our report. It gave me a sense of understanding what was going on in a hands on type way, yet we had fun. The test today let me know I have to take down a lot more notes, the question caught me off guard, but I am glad I not just write down what I think they are trying to say but more of the facts....cover all angles.

Sir Gawain and the Green Knight - Part 1 and 2

The beginning of Sir Gawain and the Green Knight was boring. It described the history of Britain, how Romulus founded Rome, Tiscius founded Tuscany, Brutus founded Britain, and it talked about the fall of Troy. Then King Arthur is introduced who is the King of Britain. Then the story finally starts picking up when they are in Christmas time at King Arthurs Palace. They feast for 15 days until it is new years day. The story goes on to talk about the games and festivities they always play on new years and how they exchange gifts. Then King Arthur announces that he refuses to eat his dinner until he hears a very good story. Then all of a sudden a knight wearin green armor comes in on a green horse. He even has a green axe. He asks to see the leader and King Arthur says he is in charge. Finally, some excitement started happening in the story because I was really bored at first. How funny would it be to be eating dinner with all of your knights and ladies and then all of a sudden a big guy dressed in green including his horse rides in. I really like the imagination people back then had. I mean now a days we have TV and movies and stuff so we tend to lack the imagination that people used to HAVE to have in order to have fun. Anyways I think it is so funny that the knight offers to let somebody chop his head off if he can chop theirs off in a year and a day. What is even more humorous than that is the fact that not one but two people volunteered for this. Why would you do that?? It's actually kinda sick if you think about it the fact that they both wanted to chop his head off. lol its kinda funny though.
the thing I liked most about this story was the way the author used such descriptive language to describe everything. For exmple lines 515 - 520 "And then the season of summer with the soft winds, When Zephyr sighs low over seeds and shoots; Glad is the green plant growing abroad, When the dew at dawn drops from the leaves...". The author is describing all of the seasons in such detail that you can practically visualize it. I thinks the fact that the five point star on his armor represents the 5 senses is really neat. He won every fight with the bulls, bears, and boars which shows how strong he is. I liked the fact that God answered the Green Knights prayer immediately.I think it goes to show that honesty is the best policy. The green knight repented his sins and then his prayer was answered. I am glad that we have Part 2 because I think that it is the most interesting so far. I haven't yet read part 3 but I kind of enjoy this story.